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External MIDI controller and synth
#1
Music 
First off, I'd like to say a HUGE well done to the developers on making Audio Evolution Mobile. Having previously read the various articles describing Android's depressing audio situation, I was absolutely blown away to see what this app can do. Playing a virtual instrument - with effects - in real-time with almost zero latency via an external MIDI controller - amazing! And then multi-channel audio recording on top, unbelievable.

OK, so I'm using a MIDI keyboard as a controller via USB, through a hub with a UR242 audio/MIDI interface also on the hub (both recognised, see Gear Bit below) I've got a controller-less synth (Novation Supernova) via old-school MIDI DIN leads on the UR242 MIDI in/out. I've got MIDI out on the Supernova connected to MIDI in on the UR242 so I can record controller movements (e.g. the filter cutoff knob).

* My problem: I can't figure out how to 'live' play the Supernova from my MIDI keyboard, via Audio Evolution, even though I can 'live' play an armed SF2 virtual MIDI track when I have the correct MIDI input assigned (I've purchased MIDI and USB audio on Audio Evolution, and this is all working fine in general).

What I've tried:

- Creating a USB MIDI track and assigning its output to the Supernova USB MIDI output.
- Assigning the track's MIDI input to the USB input of the controller keyboard.
- I can then see MIDI data from the keyboard in the 'VU meter' when the track is armed, but no sound comes from the Supernova.
- I can record this MIDI data 'deaf'; it shows up in the arrange window and piano-roll editor afterwards.
- I can then rewind, press play and hear the Supernova responding to the MIDI notes I've just recorded 'deaf' onto the track, so MIDI output is working to the Supernova and on that track.
- I've tried connecting the controller keyboard MIDI out to the MIDI in of the Supernova, and I can play the Supernova then, so there's no channel weirdness going on there (I cycled through the receive channels on the Supernova also just to check)
- I've also checked that MIDI recording from both interfaces is working, by assigning the track's MIDI input to the Supernova's MIDI in and can successfully record filter controller movements made on the device (i.e. can play them back and they take effect on the Supernova's sound)
- I've tried playing with the various combinations of the MIDI thru settings in Preferences, but that doesn't seem to change things.

Hopefully I'm missing something really RTFM, as I'd love to be able to play the Supernova from the keyboard and have it recorded.

I appreciate that playing one external device via another will be limited to when a MIDI track is armed for now; though if that could be put on the wishlist for another version that would be even better :-)

Thanks for any assistance anyone can give (and thanks again for an amazing app),
Tom.

---

[Gear Bit below - please reply if there's a better place for this that I didn't see, and I'll move it]

MIDI: I tried the app with a USB-OTG connector, linking  to a Yamaha PSR-S750 keyboard (with no hub or extra power). That worked on my Samsung Note 8.0 and Note 10.1 (2012 edition). Input and output of MIDI data works great. The keyboard is also still functioning as a USB MIDI device in conjunction with a powered USB hub and the UR242 USB audio device (see below).

Audio/MIDI: I tried an M-AUDIO M-Track Quad 4-input interface (with MIDI and USB hub). Couldn't get this recognised on either my Samsung Note 8.0 or Note 10.1 (2012) tablets, even using a powered hub and Y-splitter OTG cable with added power. Returned it to Amazon for a refund and got a:

Steinberg UR242: this worked first time on my Samsung Note 8.0, with and without a powered hub, via a normal OTG cable, no extra power added. Did not work on my Samsung Note 10.1 (2012), even with a powered hub or powered OTG. MIDI and audio all work perfectly on the Note 8.0. Audio Evolution Mobile recognises the audio inputs, outputs and MIDI.

As an aside in case it's useful for anyone, the UR242 has some basic built-in DSP effects configured via VSTs or a standalone 'dspMixFx' Windows app. Conveniently, once configured/enabled, the effects continue operating even when the device is disconnected from a USB host. So, I can setup gain and basic effects for my guitar with the Windows app, and either use the UR242 as a headphone/line amp for the guitar, or (and this is nice) play and record guitar into Audio Evolution Mobile with basic effects already applied.
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#2
(02-16-2016, 06:56 PM)tomf Wrote: As an aside in case it's useful for anyone, the UR242 has some basic built-in DSP effects configured via VSTs or a standalone 'dspMixFx' Windows app. Conveniently, once configured/enabled, the effects continue operating even when the device is disconnected from a USB host. So, I can setup gain and basic effects for my guitar with the Windows app, and either use the UR242 as a headphone/line amp for the guitar, or (and this is nice) play and record guitar into Audio Evolution Mobile with basic effects already applied.
Hi! Though I can't offer any solution to your problem, but I've a question for you regarding Steinberg UR242. I know UR242 offers direct monitoring of inputs via DSPMixFX, but the unit does not have a knob to control the Input/DAW signal. Is it possible to control Input/DAW signal of UR242 from within Audio Evolution mobile?

Thanks and Regards,
Ray
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#3
(02-16-2016, 09:12 PM)Ray007 Wrote: I've a question for you regarding Steinberg UR242. I know UR242 offers direct monitoring of inputs via DSPMixFX, but the unit does not have a knob to control the Input/DAW signal. Is it possible to control Input/DAW signal of UR242 from within Audio Evolution mobile?

I can't see anywhere in Audio Evolution Mobile to control the input signal level from software. On the mixer strip for the track, you can select the UR242 input (stereo 1-2, stereo 3-4, mono 1, mono 2, mono 3,  mono 4 - though there might be a bug there with the mono inputs being treated as stereo, I'm going to investigate and put a post in if it's not just me being dim), but no input level control.

Aside from setting the input levels with a PC and dspMixFX, the front panel inputs (1 & 2) do have individual gain knobs, in addition to their guitar/line switches, so you could set the levels on the fly with those. The rear panel line level inputs (3 & 4) don't have any level knobs on the device, so you'd have to set those with dspMixFx on a PC (assuming you've no output level control on your external devices). It would certainly be handy if Steinberg/Yamaha offered an Android app to control the device settings rather than just an iPad app Rolleyes  I guess it's fortunate that the dspMixFx app is only needed to set things up, and you can monitor & record with the effects applied.

Cheers,
Tom
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#4
Thanks for your extensive explanation of the problem. Please go into the app's preferences (More -> Preferences) and scroll up/down to 'MIDI thru'. Here you can route MIDI inputs to MIDI outputs. There is a slight chance that changing the setting causes the app to crash since there is still a bug lurking in there, but please try and let us know if it works.

I'd also be interested to hear what happens if you press the 'Next' button 3 times from the main screen. Do you end up back on the main (time line) screen or does it display mixer hardware controls of your Steinberg?
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#5
(02-16-2016, 10:48 PM)tomf Wrote: I can't see anywhere in Audio Evolution Mobile to control the input signal level from software. On the mixer strip for the track, you can select the UR242 input (stereo 1-2, stereo 3-4, mono 1, mono 2, mono 3,  mono 4 - though there might be a bug there with the mono inputs being treated as stereo, I'm going to investigate and put a post in if it's not just me being dim), but no input level control.

Thanks Tom for replying.
According AE website, "When your USB audio interface exposes internal controls such as input gain and volume, they will be presented on the Hardware mixer screen."
[Image: fetch.php?w=&h=&cache=cache&media=usbhar...rsmall.png] 

You can, "Tap the top-right icon three times to arrive at the hardware mixer screen."
"If you do not see this screen and you arrive back on the time line screen, your device does not expose any controls and you will need to adjust settings using the physical knobs on your device, when available.
There can be many controls: if they do not fit on the screen, you can swipe the controls by sliding your finger left-right at the bottom texts of the controls.
There are three types of controls:
  • Out vol: controls output volume

  • Gain: controls input gain

  • Mon: controls zero-latency monitoring: the amount of input signal that is fed directly to the output to hear yourself playing/singing."
So I was hoping that you might be able to control direct monitoring on your UR242 from within Audio Evolution.

Cheers,
Ray
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#6
Thanks for the response. Pressing the Next button three times lands me back at the arrange screen (cycle: Arrange, Tracks Mixer, Master Mixer, Arrange). I guess the UR242 isn't exposing its information via USB properly. That's a shame I guess, as it exposes the inputs OK (I can select which pair to record from fine). For me, not a problem, I can control the front inputs 1/2 via the hardware knobs; the rear input I can use the hardware out level knob on my Supernova / JP.

I won't get a chance to try the MIDI thru preferences until later, I'll reply back then. I did play with that, but with the device names all being the same, it's possible I got confused  Shy , so I'll try again methodically.

Thanks,
Tom


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#7
(02-17-2016, 12:56 PM)tomf Wrote: Pressing the Next button three times lands me back at the arrange screen (cycle: Arrange, Tracks Mixer, Master Mixer, Arrange). I guess the UR242 isn't exposing its information via USB properly. That's a shame
That's very disappointing  Sad  Although you can control input gain of the front channels of UR242 using the knobs on the audio interface, you cannot control direct monitoring of those channels unless Audio Evolution is able to provide you the option. Direct Monitoring is essential for tracking vocals.

Anyway, thanks for your detailed responses. I hope to see more posts from you on this forum.

Thanks,
Ray
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#8
Hi,

[Ray007: there's certainly direct monitoring of the inputs via the headphone out / main outs on the UR242 when using in Audio Evolution (presumably "wired through" in the device as there appears to be no latency), in fact I need to look into this as I'm getting mono monitoring of my synth (didn't notice with a guitar...) even though recording is in stereo, so won't be happy if I can't change this in dspMixFx! I'll report back on this. EDIT: the 'direct' monitoring on the rear channels, 3 & 4 being mono was entirely my own fault rather than a hardware limitation like (apparently) on the UR22; I plugged the UR242 into my PC, ran dspMixFx, and sure enough both channels 3 & 4 were panned dead centre Blush. I panned them left/right and can monitor in stereo now (regardless of whether I'm plugged into the PC, tablet or disconnected etc)]

OK, so I managed to find some time to play with the MIDI THRU settings in Audio Evolution. The TL;DR is that - I think - the MIDI THRU is sending received messages back out the interface that they came from (i.e. it is ignoring the MIDI THRU output setting).

This is a shame for me, as I was hoping to use Audio Evolution to have two devices both with MIDI input & output, using AE as the 'router'.

Also, is it possible to set the MIDI output channel number for a track (I couldn't see any setting), or is it a case of having to record data from a particular channel number in order to have it played back on that same channel number?

Below is a quick dump of what I did, apologies for any incoherence!

Thanks,
Tom

-----

Kit used:

1. Yamaha PSR-S750 Keyboard with USB MIDI & '5-pin' MIDI IN/OUT (No THRU).
- Set to 'local off' throughout
2. Steinberg UR242 - USB AUDIO & MIDI IN & OUT
3. Novation Supernova Synth with 5-pin MIDI IN/OUT/THRU
4. Powered USB hub to allow Yamaha keyboard and UR242 to be connected simultaneously.

Config 1: UR242 only, with 5-pin MIDI Keyboard & Synth

- Yamaha keyboard USB not connected.
- UR242 MIDI IN - Yamaha MIDI OUT
- UR242 MIDI OUT - Supernova MIDI IN

1. Set MIDI THRU active in AE preferences.
2. No sound from Supernova when playing until after a USB MIDI track has been armed once, even if not recorded onto.
3. After that, MIDI THRU appears to be working when MIDI tracks armed or audio tracks armed, or just playing (can hear sound from Supernova as I play the Yamaha). MIDI THRU still works even if all MIDI tracks deleted so long as something is playing.
4. Can record a MIDI track OK hearing Supernova as I plau, and play the track back and hear it playing OK on the Supernova.

5. Set MIDI THRU off in AE preferences.
6. No sound heard from Supernova when playing Yamaha when MIDI track armed (even though the MIDI VU meter shows activity).
7. Can record a track 'deaf' ok (no sound from Supernova); MIDI data shows up in the track and can be played back and heard from the Supernova.
8. MIDI THRU appears to be inactive when disabled.

Config 2: Yamaha keyboard via USB MIDI only (no UR242)

- Yamaha keyboard connected via USB
- No other USB hardware

1. MIDI THRU functions correctly only when a USB MIDI track is either playing or armed, but only after a USB MIDI track has been armed at least once. (Presumably if no USB track [audio or MIDI] active then the 'engine' isn't running)

2. Can record and play MIDI data fine.
3. MIDI THRU appears to be inactive when disabled.

Config 3: Yamaha keyboard via USB MIDI, Synth off UR242 USB Audio/MIDI via 5-pin MIDI

- Yamaha keyboard connected via USB
- UR242 MIDI IN - Supernova MIDI OUT
- UR242 MIDI OUT - Supernova MIDI IN

1. As Config 1: MIDI THRU works even when playing, so long as a USB MIDI track has been armed once.
2. Two MIDI inputs and outputs visible in the MIDI track input selector, the output selector and in the MIDI THRU dialogs (both inputs and both outputs named the same which is confusing!)
3. MIDI THRU appears to be inactive when disabled.
4. The MIDI THRU input setting appears to be working ok, though I can only transmit MIDI data from the Yamaha keyboard on USB.
5. The MIDI THRU output setting appears to be being ignored: regardless of which of the two settings I set it to, I see the Yamaha keyboard MIDI data being received by the Yamaha keyboard (it has a MIDI RX monitor, also I can hear it playing).
6. This appears to be irrespective of the USB MIDI track output setting (i.e. MIDI THRU ignores this?)
7. I can record MIDI data and have it played back on the Supernova OK - i.e. I can hear it. When recording, I'm hearing the Yamaha keyboard only, even though it has local off and MIDI THRU is set to output to the Supernova MIDI output.
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#9
(02-18-2016, 10:56 PM)tomf Wrote: EDIT: the 'direct' monitoring on the rear channels, 3 & 4 being mono was entirely my own fault rather than a hardware limitation like (apparently) on the UR22; I plugged the UR242 into my PC, ran dspMixFx, and sure enough both channels 3 & 4 were panned dead centre Blush. I panned them left/right and can monitor in stereo now (regardless of whether I'm plugged into the PC, tablet or disconnected etc)
Relieved to know that you are getting stereo monitoring of UR242' channel 3 and 4. After reading your original post I've been searching online for info on that issue. Glad it's not like that UR22's mono monitoring issue  Wink

Cheers,
Ray
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#10
(02-17-2016, 12:56 PM)tomf Wrote: Also, is it possible to set the MIDI output channel number for a track (I couldn't see any setting), or is it a case of having to record data from a particular channel number in order to have it played back on that same channel number?
Please check this thread
http://www.extreamsd.com/forum/showthrea...552#pid552
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